I was curious about engine breaking, since it seems so disputed. Some people have said you're su pposed to engine break to a near stop, other's say you're supposed to take it out of gear and roll to a stop. In normal driving I do both, but I was curious when I should take advantage of engine breaking, and when I should take advantage of rolling in neutral.

And for engine breaking to a stop, does that mean downshifting all the way to the bottom of 1st gear? Usually when I try to downshift and engine break to a stop (From 5th) I get to about the bottom of 3rd gear and have to start using the breaks because I'm not slowing down fast enough.

I was also curious about engine breaking after a WOT run, because it seems some people do it and some don't. The other day I tried this, and it was actually through a curvy road. I did a 2nd gear pull, let the engine break as I made a tight turn (The engine breaking was REALLY loud, so I got kinda scared but just let it continue because I was under the impression you're supposed to engine break) and did another WOT run. The car responded EXCELLENT on the 2nd WOT run, I was very impressed at the throttle response and the torque feeling compared to the last WOT pull I did.

So enlighten me here fellas, I'm all ears, here to learn.


:confused: Engine breaking :confused:

Read this definition:

ENGINE BRAKING is a method of slowing down an automobile without the use of the car's friction braking system. It works best on cars with a manual transmission, though cars with automatic transmissions experience the effects as well. Some automatic transmissions may compensate for it to some degree, however, which may not be what you want. In the case of either type of transmission (Though it is more useful with a stick) one can downshift in order to increase the effectiveness of this technique, though it can be observed at any time by simply letting off the gas.

If you let up on the gas in your car you will start to slow down. This is in part due to friction. Let off the gas pedal all the way, and you slow down more than you can explain by loss due to aerodynamics and rolling friction, however. The explanation is that your car is no longer putting energy into causing compression, but the road is. Your engine now works specifically as a compressor, being driven by the road, and going through a fairly significant ratio conversion in the process. The compression (and regular friction of course) creates heat, which is dissipated by the engine's cooling system. However, a lot of the energy is also expressed back into the road via the expansion of gases.

There are a number of reasons you might want to engage in engine braking. The first is that it puts little or no more load on your engine than it would otherwise bear, but saves considerable wear on your brakes. This leads into the next reason, primarily in the case of racing, but also when going down long hills; Frequent use of brakes not only wears out the pads but also heats them up. This leads to brake fade (most brake pads do not grip well when hot) and to boiling of the brake fluid, which does not work properly once it has been boiled. Brake fade is only a problem during overuse of brakes, such as going down long, steep hills, or during "aggressive" driving. The third reason, also primarily significant in sports driving, is that you want to decelerate into turns and accelerate out of them. Downshifting increases the effectiveness of engine braking, and increases the number of RPMs at a given speed, which tends to assist in acceleration.

The upgraded version of this, the Jacobs Engine Brake (AKA the "Jake Brake") found on diesel trucks opens the exhaust valves when the cylinder has been compressed (Or, when it is at or near TDC or top dead center) and releases the stored air through the exhaust system, very loudly. This is the loud "B-R-R-R-R-AP" noise that you sometimes hear large trucks make.

It does cause engine wear. Brake pads are cheap as is the labor to replace them. Engine rings are cheap too, but the labor isn't... I don't engine brake unless racing (aside from coasting in gear down long hills @ < 3000rpm). Will you immediately blow an engine from engine braking? No, of course not. But it accelerates the wear on it. The "brake fade" reason is from the '50s with 4500lb cars on 13" drum brakes. You will NEVER fade the MK3's brakes driving normally

It does cause engine wear. Brake pads are cheap as is the labor to replace them. Engine rings are cheap too, but the labor isn't... I don't engine brake unless racing (aside from coasting in gear down long hills @ < 3000rpm). Will you immediately blow an engine from engine braking? No, of course not. But it accelerates the wear on it. The "brake fade" reason is from the '50s with 4500lb cars on 13" drum brakes. You will NEVER fade the MK3's brakes driving normally

right on. :woowoo:

I can't see decelerating causing any more wear than accelerating would

heh. ok.....

think of it this way- there's more wear than NOT doing it. ;)

So after a long pull I should take it out of gear correct? This is what I've been doing, but personally only because I like hearing the flames come out the exhaust as the RPM's fall just past 4000

:evil:

You could always rig a spark plug into your exhaust :)

i'm guilty. i'm a constant downshifter/rev matcher. before a corner, i dont brake, i downshift, and accelerate like a mofo out of the turn.

-shaeff

i'm guilty. i'm a constant downshifter/rev matcher. before a corner, i dont brake, i downshift, and accelerate like a mofo out of the turn.

-shaeff

I do that on curvy roads. It's quite fun.

downshifting is like doubling the frictional wear on your engine. you experience wear while accelerating and wear when decelerating. you can almost cut this wear in half! simple take it out of gear when decelerating! its a free-lunch. you can double the life expectancy of your engine by coasting out of gear! OMFG!

like they said, its easier to replace brake pads and rotors than rings and bearings.

the ONLY time i can recommend downshifting and engine braking is if you need to slow down rapidly or cool your engine off rapidly. if you downshift, kill the ignition and floor the throttle, your engine turns into a massive air pump. it cools off the block and cooling system rapidly as well as your EGT's.

quote...if you downshift, kill the ignition and floor the throttle, your engine turns into a massive air pump. it cools off the block and cooling system rapidly as well as your EGT's.

BAD idea. If you have a situation, you will need power brakes, and steering. Killing the ignition is an unsafe thing to do.

Also, when you downshift, you are putting 2x as much wear on the syncros in the transmission. Trannys aren't cheap to rebuild.

youre kidding me right?

i didnt say turn the key all the way off, lock the igniton and column and throw the keys on the floor... i said KILL THE IGNITION. that means turning the key to the OFF position. ONE click before the LOCK position. you will still have full control of the steering and braking. the vaccum reserve of the brake booster allows for 2-3 pedal strokes with sufficient assist.

btw, with the engine still turning, it will still draw a vaccum against a closed throttle plate. regardless of fuel and ignition, an engine pulling air agaisnt a closed throttle will create vaccum... more than enough vaccum to operate power-assit brakes.

and when you downshift PROPERLY, you blip the throttle and rev match so the synchros dont have to speed up. the main shaft is already at the same speed as the secondary shaft and the gears are already synchronized. you have to be a real jabroni to pull it out of gear, let the rpms fall to idle and then somehow try to downshift. if you are dumb enough to try and ask that of your tranny, you deserve to ruin synchros and clutches.


thanks for playing though.

I prefer the automatic to a 5 speed.

I prefer the automatic to a 5 speed.

heh. WHY!?!??!

;)

Then I dont have to set my Big Mac down. :burnrubbe

babaahwhwhehhwhwahahahahahahahahahaha!

good stuff man. ;)

:lol: If I need to cool the engine off that badly, I generally just turn the thing off. You can steer and brake without power assist unless youre just a girlie man. Ok, the brakes may take 2 feet, but doable...

i dont engine break much... unless im driving a little "spirited" i usually see the red light coming up and just slow down really early and casually. then throw it out of gear. i agree with whoever said id rather replace brake pads then clutch or engine parts

I prefer the automatic to a 5 speed.


sweet, you wanna buy a spare low mileage tranny?

Haven't you seen the "Trucks use lower gear" signs while going down hill on the highway? Hmmm

yeah... have you seen those runaway truck ramps?

those things are sweet. when i had my blazer, i always wanted to see how far i could climb up them. and i always wanted to see a truck run away and blast up the gravel-covered ramps.

yeah... have you seen those runaway truck ramps?

those things are sweet. when i had my blazer, i always wanted to see how far i could climb up them. and i always wanted to see a truck run away and blast up the gravel-covered ramps.

yeah i saw a truck parked on one one day. too bad i didn't see it hit. :eusa_sile

that has to be a crazy ride... mountains are cool but they kinda scare me. im always paranoid about overheating my brakes and going out of control... a firey automobile, coming down the mountian.

when i downshift i usually rev match, but thats only if i want to accelerate... if i need to stop i just take it out of gear and leave it in neutral, though id rather change brake pads and brake components rather than engine components, i dont really engine brake that much though...i leave it gear and let it coast when going down a big hill but thats all

Well, the Big Mac is acutally second to the superiority of the planetary gearset.

:snork_abe ...Yep...I love the way my little planetary gears revolve around the sun gears. It gives me a 'warm, tanny' feeling...knowing that as long as I keep the oil changed regularly, I won't have to rebuild my tranny for a long long time. So many more miles longer than a 5 speed. And I don't have to pull it out just to replace some silly clutch. :eusa_ange

You Supra guys are weird

:snork_abe ...Yep...I love the way my little planetary gears revolve around the sun gears. It gives me a 'warm, tanny' feeling...knowing that as long as I keep the oil changed regularly, I won't have to rebuild my tranny for a long long time. So many more miles longer than a 5 speed. And I don't have to pull it out just to replace some silly clutch. :eusa_ange

heh. unless you make any sort of real power.....in which case your beloved clutches throw up their hands in frustration...

id go 5 spd any day of the week, its soo much more...fun, i dunno i just like switching gears myself...it makes me feel like i have control even though i really dont

well, actually, the ghetto big mac owns the real big mac and planetary gearset. the ghetto big mac will be a secret known to few, cherished by all ;)

big mac huh? thats the thing with two all-beef patties, lettuce, tomatoes and special sauce right? yea i alrdy know that secret....its like $5.49 with fries and a coke...sometimes i go drive thru sometimes i go inside.... :crazy01:

special sauce!

haha pickles and onions goes somewhere in tehre...but the best part is the special sauce...nothing else matters

tomatoes huh? is this kid serious? apparantly, you are not a "heavy user" according to the United McDonalds of America.

im sorry....yea ur right...there are not tomatoes...damnn :cry:

lol... i wont crucify you. im glad there arent tomatoes. i think itd taste weird if there was. i think they would clash w/ the tang of the "special sauce".

you know what id like to see? i would like to see a big mac made with the flame broiled goodness of a Burger King meat patty. omg, thatd be teh hotness. why cant mcdonalds make meat that doesnt taste like... nothing? at least BK's burgers taste like a grill and have flavor.

if i was rich, id go to BK and get the whopper patty, then to McD's and give it to them and make my big mac w/ it... thatd be so cool

Wasnt this about "engine braking"? I will take a (properly) built auto over a durable manual anyday. Just my prefrence. And consistency.

consistency is good...for bracket racing.

if i was to build an all out drag car, not bracket, id be using a Lenco. i dont like the feeling of not being in control. id much prefer a bullet-proof manual over a durable auto anyday. i dont want to drift and end up having the tranny upshift when i dont want it to. i want to hold gears and not have frictional losses because there is a fluid coupling between my engine and the rear end.

but, i may leave my car AT for the time being, because AT's are so damn "luxurious". i can kick back and just cruise. sometimes, i just simply dont feel like shifting. know what i mean?

yea...i dont want to interfere with teh tang of the special sauce..its too special...i like the bk patties...but i also like the wendy's patties too theyre pretty good...might go make my own frankenburger....hahaa and yes...engine braking is related to this kind of conversation...and id rather have my 5 spd over anything..except for a 6spd getrag...hahaha wouldnt mind one of those... maybe two, AT's are ok for cruising...but i prefer an MT, i have more control..especially for drifting when teh clutch comes in real handy... mmm flamebroiled :evil:

yeah, you cant shift lock or clutch kick an automatic. but, you cant brake boost a manual off the line. they both have their ups and downs. if i have it my way, ill have an R154 thats as strong as a getrag, if not stronger.... i just need money first.

it always seems to come down to money...never have enough...yea it def. is easier to drift with a manny...more control..because you can get the gears you want...and clutch kick is pretty hard with auto...especially if you dont got a clutch :confused:

The MA70 isnt and was never meant to be an all out drag car anyway. If I really wanted to fly I wouldnt be in any Supra at all.

Drifting? None for me.

Our cars are not at the point power wise were a liberty or lenco is an advantage to a well built auto. I remember HKS having that 8 sec MA70 sometime ago. There would be an advantage.

Personally, I'd take a fire grilled Angus Bacon Cheddar Ranch above any hybrid Big Mac or well built auto.

hahahaha i have yet to try the angus bacon cheddar ranch burger...im sure ill get around to it sometime, drifting is fun..i think someone said it best somewhere on this forum...if you're able to drift in an mk3 you will def. be able to drift in a 240 or anything else in a couple of minutes...and should be as good as teh owner...the mk3 is a hard car to slide...but once you get it..everything else seems easier to drive

Why do people always engine break? Is it recommended by the manufacturer? Every time I drive in a friend's car who doesn't have much car knowledge or another manual car I constantly hear them engine break to a stop. Why do they do this? Even before I knew about engine breaking I was just taking it out of gear and rolling to a stop. Why do so many people engine break to a stop?

BTW, way to get off topic guys...

for the last freaking time-

it's engine BRAKE, not break.....

engine breaking is what happens when you don't put any oil in it....

haha doc j got it...no oil=break....i dont engine break...i pull it outta gear when coming to a stop, but if i kinda roll to a stop and i know traffic will start moving before i stop...i keep it in gear...otherwise when coming to a stop i pull i out of gear, i dont think it is recommended by the manufacturer i dont think the manufacturer really cares, haha i just realized when i drift i use the engine brake...its better cause it helps transfer the load to the front of the car without having to use the brakes (i mean breaks), kidding kidding, by the way...i think white castle is tied with wendys for me....not much of a fan of mickie d's...on occasion a firegrilled meal is ok

yeah, but not everyone is out there to go balls to the wall. if they were, theyd have a Fox body trunk with a 351 truck motor and an ass load of nitrous. the reason we are all here is because we want to haul ass in style or make alot of power. we like the challenge of power production or speed that an MA70 creates. the MA70 isnt the easiest to drag race, road race or drift... but its an endearing quality. the fact that we can do any one of those tasks with some semblance of talent gives us the right to gloat.

like Angel Robels was able to cut 1.6 60' times on off-the-shelf Eibach pro-kit springs, stock-ass struts and street tires. he could brag about doing something exceptionally well with what he has available to him.

if you can run 10's or 11's in a full weight MK3 with AC and drive home, youre doing something right. it feels good too. if you can drift an MK3 as well as someone with an SR-swapped 240sx, you are doing something right. its rewarding.

doing something other than cross-country cruises in an MK3 is rewarding because the car wasnt meant to do anything other than Cross-country/long distance driving.

i just hold my big mac in my mouth when i shift. ;) sometimes it drips on me, though.
:( you damn auto people dont have to worry about that.

i'll still take my 5 speed. :)

-shaeff

i like taco bell best

taco bell pwnz faces, especially at 2am or later! dat steak burrito is so goood mang. burritos and such are much more convenient for single-handed eatery. the big macs can get out of hand, especially when you are biting into the sandwich and all the guts squish to the other side of the bun... then you have shredded lettuce soaked in "Secret sauce" falling on your lap. that is teh suxor.

grilled steak burritos are awesome... so are the grilled steak taquitos and the chicken quesadillas. thats all i ever get

the quesadillas are good, but i dont get them anymore because i feel like im getting cheated. there are only 3 components to the filling of a quesadilla; animal, cheese, sauce. for the same money, the jew in me forces me to get burritos with; beans, rice, onions, sauce, animal, sour cream. the jew in me says the quesadilla is a rip off.

and taquitos? i didnt know they had those... i dont remember seeing those on the menu here. i wonder if its a regional thing.

beef supreme chalupas are the win.

chalupas are the shit...i love that stuff...that and a spicy chicken burrito.. its funny that big bell value meal...it sucks...i dunno bout you guys but they make that half pound shit like like its a 1/8th of a pound its soo damn small.. pisses me off sometimes...then they jacked up teh price of the double decker tacos...damn used to be .99c now its like wut 1.19...thats bull...haha animal.. i like that cheese and animal...well they say its beef...and sometimes chicken...i guess it could be one or the other

i'm partial to the grilled stuft burrito....quite tasty and has everything you need in it....aside from those 2 nasty sauces.

i really don't think it's beef.....just call it "meat".....any else remember when the bell got busted for using kangaroo meat? not that i mind....

as long as it tastes good..then kangaroo meat is good enough for me, its not like kangaroos are bad for you...at least they arent using like...rat meat or somtin..id rather eat a kangaroo than a rat to tell you teh truth...

my thoughts exactly....spice it up enough and it's going to taste fine... ;)

ill agree with you on that one...now thats thinking outside of the bun

...now thats thinking outside of the bun

bwbwhahahahaahahahahahahaha!

:snork_lac :sheep:

hmm, kangaroo is good i hear. but you have to eat the Joey's, and just the tail... from the older roo's, the meet gets too tough and gristly. you have to eat the younguns cuz they are more tender and under developed, like veals.

i think the beef isnt beef. well it is, bits grade F, approved for human consumption... but thats about it. the is no real grain to it, its weird. pseudo-beef. i still eat it, even though i know th echicken and steak are closer to real animal peices.

i want those grilld stufft fajits to come back, those were good as hell...

yea i was hearing kangaroo tail is pretty popular...i feel bad eating the joeys its messed up...its like eating your own baby....almost hahaha, thats why i like my white castle..a tiny ass beef patty steamed on a bed of onions... topped with cheese, pickle slice, and ketchup....might have to get me some tonight...soo worth it

Wow you guys :aiwebs_02

wut happened? :image:

They really veered off topic there lol...

I still want to learn more about engine braking, since I see so many cars doing it.. on the street, on tv, on the track, but I guess they're more interested in invading my thread talking about fast food.

:(

if there is anything else you want to know, please let us know.

if you want agood excuse to do it, then just keep telling yourself this;

1. no fuel and spark with the engine rpm up will turn the engine into an air pump and cool it from the inside out

2. keeping rpms above idle after a high speed/rpm pull will keep the engine oil pressure and volume above minimum specifications and prevent bearing galling due to high engine temperatures and low oil flow/pressure.

i dont really see much of an advantage or disadvantage of engine braking, i dont really use it much unless im taking my time when coming to a stop light or if im going down teh hill....otherwise i say i rarely use it....it strains the motor a little more, but doing it occasionally wont kill the motor...i dunno i say its more your choice of doing it... :hihi:

if there is anything else you want to know, please let us know.

if you want agood excuse to do it, then just keep telling yourself this;

1. no fuel and spark with the engine rpm up will turn the engine into an air pump and cool it from the inside out

2. keeping rpms above idle after a high speed/rpm pull will keep the engine oil pressure and volume above minimum specifications and prevent bearing galling due to high engine temperatures and low oil flow/pressure.


Thank you! Much more clear now. That was the kind of answer I was looking for. That explains a lot.