What are the 7 most critical things to address when preventing detonation?

1) timing
2) A:F ratio
3) plugs
4) compression
5) fuel type
6) incoming air temp
7) hot spots or sharp edges

1) timing
2) A:F ratio
3) plugs
4) compression
5) fuel type
6) incoming air temp
7) hot spots or sharp edges

Compression and fuel fall under the same category....I knew I was going to forget something, you pointed out TWO! So make it 9!

1) timing
2) A:F ratio
3) spark plugs
4) compression/fuel
5) incoming air temp
6) hot spots or sharp edges
7)
8)
9)

Compression and fuel fall under the same category....I knew I was going to forget something, you pointed out TWO! So make it 9!

1) timing
2) A:F ratio
3) spark plugs
4) compression/fuel
5) incoming air temp
6) hot spots or sharp edges
7)
8)
9)

7) Chamber squish area
8) cylinder temperature
9) exhuast flow
?

7) Chamber squish area
8) cylinder temperature
9) exhuast flow
?

Cylinder temperature is determined by air temp/fuel/compression. Your on the right track with exhaust flow, but we are looking for a specific term.

I think excessive overlap can cause detonation too.

I think excessive overlap can cause detonation too.

Overlap by itself is fine, but if something else is present, it can definately make things worse....what is the other thing....your heading in the right direction.

Overlap by itself is fine, but if something else is present, it can definately make things worse....what is the other thing....your heading in the right direction.

I would guess that alot of overlap with high backpressure would be a bad thing!

I would guess that alot of overlap with high backpressure would be a bad thing!

Bingo!

so
1) timing
2) A:F ratio
3) spark plugs
4) compression/fuel
5) incoming air temp
6) hot spots or sharp edges
7) Combustion chamber shape
8) BackPressure
9)

One more.....

Bingo!

so
1) timing
2) A:F ratio
3) spark plugs
4) compression/fuel
5) incoming air temp
6) hot spots or sharp edges
7) Combustion chamber shape
8) BackPressure
9)

One more.....


What about the actual temperature of the cylinder, valves, head etc?

How about the amount of load on the engine?

What about the actual temperature of the cylinder, valves, head etc?

How about the amount of load on the engine?

Nope..... and the amount of load on the engine is related to cylinder pressure.

Your reaching......think about it a bit.... you'll get it!

9) Peak Overall Compression? Static compression ratio? Something like that?

Bingo!

so
1) timing
2) A:F ratio
3) spark plugs
4) compression/fuel
5) incoming air temp
6) hot spots or sharp edges
7) Combustion chamber shape
8) BackPressure
9)

One more.....Charge-air pressure (aka boost).

Boost, and compression ratio fall under cylinder pressure/fuel....

Keep goin.. I'll give you a hint...it's in the mechanical part of the engine, not a secondary state.

But it's a component or a measure?

Valves operating at higher than normal temperature because of excessive guide clearance or improper seal with valve seats.
Overheating.
Ignition crossfiring. Induced voltage in spark plug wires that run parallel to each other for long distances.

We aren't talking about problems, just the make up of the engine and what things to consider. In a discussion I just had with Larry at SP, another one popped in to my head as well. So we have 10 now...and I think that's it!



1) timing
2) A:F ratio
3) spark plugs
4) compression/fuel
5) incoming air temp
6) hot spots or sharp edges
7) Combustion chamber shape
8) BackPressure
9)
10)

Another hint. Directly has to do with displacement.

Intake manifold volume?

Intake manifold volume?
Ummmm.....No!

stroke!

stroke!

Be more specific.......one of them is a byproduct of stroke!

Be more specific.......one of them is a byproduct of stroke!

Two by-products of stroke are rod length and revving capacity.

Two by-products of stroke are rod length and revving capacity.

What about stroke decreases revving capability?

What about stroke decreases revving capability?


Exactly.

What about stroke decreases revving capability?Increase in distance traveled per rev, which increases inertial loads.

Increase in distance traveled per rev, which increases inertial loads.

You mean piston speed!....your getting there...what else?

You mean piston speed!....your getting there...what else?You're correct that when I said "Increase in distance traveled per rev..." ALSO means that the speed of the entire piston-and-rod assembly increases...the speed of the piston, the wrist pin, the piston rings, the connecting rod, etc...since (with a stroker kit) you're increasing the distance traveled in the same amount of time.

Imo, if you want to post something, just post it...or if you don't want to, simply don't. There's really no need to make a game out of this.

You're correct that when I said "Increase in distance traveled per rev..." ALSO means that the speed of the entire piston-and-rod assembly increases...the speed of the piston, the wrist pin, the piston rings, the connecting rod, etc...since (with a stroker kit) you're increasing the distance traveled in the same amount of time.

Imo, if you want to post something, just post it...or if you don't want to, simply don't. There's really no need to make a game out of this.

Well, your not getting it. The speed of the components have no affect...there is another component that does.

Imo...if you don't want to participate...don't! The others are enjoying this.

Hey, can we go back a bit, and see where we at exactly?

Sort of summary!

Well, your not getting it. The speed of the components have no affect...there is another component that does...Actually YOU may not be "getting it". You asked "What about stroke decreases revving capability?". The answer is increased intertial loads. Period.

Of course combustion chamber volume (at TDC) is increased by a stroker kit, but this doesn't affect "revving capability". As I'm sure you'd point out, increased combustion chamber volume is also somewhat redundant with #7 on the list (http://www.thesupraforums.com/showpost.php?p=9964&postcount=17) "combustion chamber shape".
...if you don't want to participate...don't! The others are enjoying this.Since it appears that you like games so much, I have a question for you. Pardon my curiosity, but exactly how are you so sure that everyone is "enjoying" the format of your guessing game? If there's a point to all of this, imo getting to it is long overdue...

Actually YOU may not be "getting it". You asked "What about stroke decreases revving capability?". The answer is increased intertial loads. Period.

Of course combustion chamber volume (at TDC) is increased by a stroker kit, but this doesn't affect "revving capability". As I'm sure you'd point out, increased combustion chamber volume is also somewhat redundant with #7 on the list (http://www.thesupraforums.com/showpost.php?p=9964&postcount=17) "combustion chamber shape".
Since it appears that you like games so much, I have a question for you. Pardon my curiosity, but exactly how are you so sure that everyone is "enjoying" the format of your guessing game? If there's a point to all of this, imo getting to it is long overdue...

I get it just fine... your statement of "increased inertial loads" has nothing to do with this discussion.

I know that the people participation (other than you) are enjoying it...becuase some of them have called me and asked me questions to help them along... if you don't like it.. don't participate... no one is making you.

Hey, can we go on please....

What about a point of the situation to see where we at?

I get it just fine... your statement of "increased inertial loads" has nothing to do with this discussion.Then perhaps you can explain why you asked "What about stroke decreases revving capability?", because intertial loads is the only relevant answer (despite it's relevance, or lack thereof, to this discussion). In other words, if my answer has "has nothing to do with this discussion", then neither does your question.

Then perhaps you can explain why you asked "What about stroke decreases revving capability?", because intertial loads is the only relevant answer (despite it's relevance, or lack thereof, to this discussion). In other words, if my answer has "has nothing to do with this discussion", then neither does your question.

No...it's not the onlyt relevant answer, there are several other things to consider...included rod angle...etc... None of this however relates to the topic at hand. Maybe one of the later parts will discuss this.

Hey, can we go on please....

What about a point of the situation to see where we at?


1) timing
2) A:F ratio
3) spark plugs
4) compression/fuel
5) incoming air temp
6) hot spots or sharp edges
7) Combustion chamber shape
8) BackPressure
9)
10)

No...it's not the onlyt relevant answer, there are several other things to consider...included rod angle...etc... None of this however relates to the topic at hand. Maybe one of the later parts will discuss this.So you're saying that the increased rod angle in a stroked 2jz-gte "decreases revving capability" moreso than the increased inertial loads? Honestly I'd love to see any data you have to support that claim.

Either way, fwiw I agree this digression (both the question and it's answers) can be dealt with later, or via PM if you prefer.

So you're saying that the increased rod angle in a stroked 2jz-gte "decreases revving capability" moreso than the increased inertial loads? Honestly I'd love to see any data you have to support that claim.

Either way, fwiw I agree this digression (both the question and it's answers) can be dealt with later, or via PM if you prefer.


Put any stroker kit you want in the 2jz, and I guarantee you won't even come close to the reciprocating mass that Saad and I run in our Supras, and he consistantly sees over 10krpm! Like I said, there is alot more to it than just "enertial loads". The valvetrain etc.... If your rotating components are designed to handle the rpm for their weight, it's not an issue, geometry however is! This is for another thread though...please....let's stick to finishing the list, then we can move in.....if you so desire.

Put any stroker kit you want in the 2jz, and I guarantee you won't even come close to the reciprocating mass that Saad and I run in our Supras, and he consistantly sees over 10krpm! Like I said, there is alot more to it than just "enertial loads". The valvetrain etc.... If your rotating components are designed to handle the rpm for their weight, it's not an issue, geometry however is!...Since you posted here instead of PM, I'll do the same: Given your description above, wouldn't you agree that inertial loads in a stroked 2jz-gte at 10K rpm exceed inertial loads in a non-stroked 2jz-gte at 10k rpm? The property of increased inertial loads in a stroker kit is it's primary rpm-limiting factor, and not geometry. I agree that valve float is an issue at higher rpms, but of course that has nothing (directly) to do with a stroker kit...

...This is for another thread though...please....let's stick to finishing the list, then we can move in.....if you so desire...Fwiw, I agree...back to 'the list' it is.

9. Piston Dwell time at TDC
10. Piston bore size vs flame travel

Boost, and compression ratio fall under cylinder pressure/fuel....

Keep goin.. I'll give you a hint...it's in the mechanical part of the engine, not a secondary state.


Primary Ignition?

Wouldnt engine rpms play a factor too. Or maybe I missed it like a complete buffoon